helblonde: (pavilion)
helblonde ([personal profile] helblonde) wrote2009-04-06 07:24 pm
Entry tags:

Serving Ware

A fine idea has been tossed around in a couple of conversations and again in the Mists Management Meeting this past Sunday. I'm really hoping that something comes of it (is that the sound of me raising a hand to see that it happens? No, I'm still typing, maybe after). To wit, the Principality could purchase and maintain an inventory of feast serving dishes.

There are a whole bunch of things that would need to be ironed out, but in concept I think this is great. Ultimately, I'll write up my suggestions to our Beloved Seneschal, but for now here are a few things that I'm mulling over.

- What would be needed? Two courses of dishes, at least, but what would that look like? X big platters, XX small platters, X^6 utensils, etc.
- Would we want to do cooking ware, too?
- Do we want to focus on period stuff? Aluminum platters, for instance, are relatively cheap and sturdy, but do decay (as we are seeing in the SS feast stuff). Pottery is heavy, expensive, and more fragile if dropped, but significantly more durable in terms of standing up to long term use and washing. We should be able to at least skip anything plastic. I'd prefer to skip a lot of wooden bowls, since they crack a lot, too.
- Who would be in charge of keeping this inventory? Not the regalia officer (busy enough). Maybe a lesser officer? Maybe a cookery group?
- Where would this stuff be stored? I wouldn't want this in my garage. Could the stuff be stored in the regalia locker? Would the Principality pay for additional storage space?
- What would be a reasonable budget for replacing things, assuming that there will be some loss and breakage every year?
- Could groups within the Principality check out this gear? IMO, Yes, as long as their event doesn't conflict with a Principality feast. How would conflicts at Yule season be resolved? First come, first serving ware?

[identity profile] ermine-rat.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 04:10 am (UTC)(link)
Thousands of years ago, there used to be a single medium sized chest with 4 plates, and table settings for eight, all the goblets and bowls were broken though. I heard that the old Principality tablecloth with all the different groups' arms is gone. I think I saw the ancient salt cellar recently at the Court of Love, but I don't know what else has survived. Much of the time I see the P&P use their own personal stuff. I wish there was some nicer stuff, but it doesn't seem to last very long.

[identity profile] goldenstag.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 12:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, if the Royalty wouldn't dump these things at the bottom of their stuff, and then throw armor bags on 'em ... <g> But seriously, many (but not all) royalty don't treat the regalia and items that belong to the Principality all that well, which is why things constantly need replacing.

[identity profile] helblonde.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 06:05 pm (UTC)(link)
That sounds nice.

What I'm refering to is the serving ware - platters, pitchers, large bowls, etc.

[identity profile] syele.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 04:52 am (UTC)(link)
Could you please email this to me privately, so I can put it on my To Answer list after thinking about it a bit? Note, I don't mind cross posting my answer, but having it starred in my Gmail makes me actually pay attention to it. (sorry).

XOXO,
S.

:)

[identity profile] helblonde.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 06:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Done!
Edited 2009-04-07 22:06 (UTC)

[identity profile] ornerie.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 05:53 am (UTC)(link)
the madrone culinary guild has maintained a pretty large inventory of stuff for a number of years and I'd be happy to share our experiences (good and bad) if you're interested?

[identity profile] ornerie.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 02:50 pm (UTC)(link)
ok, lets see:

1. we have aquired ALOT of stuff. serving stuff, table cloths, cooking stuff. large, commercial grade stuff. its been aqueired over many years, and some stuff (pottery serving bowls, knives, etc) has gone through several generations.

2. we store it at a members house. they get a nice set of shelving built for them at guild expense in return :). we all pitch in for its transportation and periodic inventory. its stored in plastic bins with clear sides and LABELS. the labels never seem to REALLY tell us whats in the boxes but it helps :)

3. most of our serving stuff is in sets of 25. that covers all the tables plus some extras for breakage. its a collection of pottery bowls that we've had made custom from a local potter (lovely but HEAVY), pretty medievally patterned dinnerware from a local chain store, etc. we still have the metal steak plates...they're ugly as sin but you can heat them in the oven so they keep food hot, they are lightweight and unbreakable.

we use far less BIG serving stuff than you'd think. we tend to break things into tables of 8, so regular sized (or even smallish) dishes work best. too big a dish and the food looks meager and sad...

we used to use alot of wood but less now. too hard to clean. We do have a crate full of finished boards that are VERY useful and a crate of large heavy slabs of wood with indents routed into them wich are VERY good for serving large bits of meaty things (you can arrange the little sauces around, etc, and use them as a cutting board). the old fashioned pressed wood bowls and plates finally went away, I think.

we have a LARGE crate of serving spoons! we get these from restaurant supply places. the "rice spoons" are the most useful...we also have crates of pyrex pie pans (can cook and serve in the same dish!), etc. and a large selection of good commercial grade knives that lives in a large knife block (its handy having a guild member who's a wood worker :))

4. we've paid for all this with cookbook sales, plus by building a "dish tax" into the budget of each banquet we've done. I think its like 20 cents a person or so. at 150 people, that adds up pretty quickly. plus we charge rental fees if people want to borrow stuff. this coveres breakage as well as "pain in the butt" fees because to loan stuff out we have to dig out the one or two things they want and then put them back. Note: tablecloths are the most popular item to rent and we should charge extra for those. they never come back unstained and we have to replace them much more often than large serving dishes!

5. maintaining the pile of stuff is a big job. be sure to brace yourself for the inventorying, maintenance, replacement, etc....periodic purges of outdated or damaged stuff is a good idea too. keeping an up to date spreadsheet with photos is a good way to help a head cook plan without having to dig through everything. be sure to measure the bowls too so that you know if the soup will fit in them :)

hopefully this helps some? if you think of any other questions, dont hesitate to ask me :)
Edited 2009-04-07 14:59 (UTC)

[identity profile] helblonde.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 06:06 pm (UTC)(link)
That's super helpful. Thank you!
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Re: Storage

[identity profile] theiadora.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 08:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Why isn't the Principality paying for a Storage Spot? It's not like a Huge one would be necessary....
(deleted comment)

Re: Storage

[identity profile] theiadora.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 08:55 pm (UTC)(link)
But the Trailer is gone as well, and I'll bet not all P&P's have the space to store the Thrones & the Pavilion in their apartments.... Maybe its time again...
There is storage units near the 680 and 24 interchanges (easy location from all the areas of the Mists).

After watching people from the current reign have to figure out where each piece of was going, and who's car it was going in... Ouch...

Re: Storage

[identity profile] helblonde.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 10:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I vaguely remember something about this, too. It would be good to find out.
(deleted comment)

Re: Inventory

[identity profile] cathyblancett.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 08:59 pm (UTC)(link)
If we are talking about the dishes then Sharpee can wash off. I would suggest if metal - then engraving
but if ceramic, pottery and such then it will need to be researched as to what will stay on during a good washing.

Re: Inventory

[identity profile] helblonde.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 10:01 pm (UTC)(link)
If it's pottery, then the potter can glaze something in, I presume. I would think we'd want a bulk order, if only to keep things consistent.

I do have an etcher... somewhere... in the garage.
Edited 2009-04-07 22:02 (UTC)

[identity profile] falzalot.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 03:40 pm (UTC)(link)
This is a totally awesome idea, and I can only hope it comes together in time for us to rent it. :->

[identity profile] joycebre.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)
aluminum discolors, pits, and makes acidic foods taste bad. Stainless is just as period as aluminum, and is significantly easier care, and doesn't wreck vinegar'd foods. Pottery is heavy and breaks, but if you get the kind that can go in the dishwasher, it's easy to clean. Keeps food hot longer too.
Wood cracks, is hard to clean and must be hand washed and oiled periodically.
Getting things back cleaned could be a problem. Sometimes people 'field clean' things, and then they get put in storage still dirty. It's gross as a cook to open a box o'dishes and then find that everything has to be washed & sterilized _before_ the feast. (yes, I've had to do that)

Too true

[identity profile] helblonde.livejournal.com 2009-04-07 10:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Returned dirty would be unacceptable. Blech.

[identity profile] aastg.livejournal.com 2009-04-08 01:25 am (UTC)(link)
I would be interested to see an estimate of the cost. (I know, I know, but that's what they don't pay me for....)

Of course you would!

[identity profile] helblonde.livejournal.com 2009-04-08 06:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Once I have an estimate of what I think is needed, I'll put together a cost estimate to go with it. Based on what ornerie has posted above, I have some thoughts about how this would be paid for initially versus how the ongoing maintenance and replacement would be figured. I'll copy you when I send it around.